Welcome to the American Empire

Hi from Australia -

I think the Iraq war marks the point when the US finally crossed the line into Empire-hood (I don't use the term "imperialism" because it's so devalued by overuse). I've given a lot of thought to the motivations behind the invasion - obviously discarding the justifications given - and I don't really believe that oil was the reason either, though I don't dismiss that altogether.

So, anyway, I was left with two possibilities: Either it was pre-planned (the Wolfowitz scenario, if that isn't a Ludlum title), which I discard on the basis that they took so long about implementing it, or it was the over-reaction of an Empire to an attack on its citizens. I feel that parallels abound - notably the Roman response to resistance, when a death among its ranks was punished ten-fold. I think Garry Trudeau has picked up on this feeling also, with a plumed helm now adorning Bush's asterisk!

This is all very short-hand, but what I'm getting at is that fascism's a very easy word to bandy about, and it may only obscure the reality of the situation. Certainly it's worth watching out for, but what are the danger signs, exactly? What would be your checklist?

From here, I'd actually over-estimated the loss of freedom after 9/11 - I'd expected that dissent would actually be made illegal. I know it's been made difficult, but a savaging by the chihuahuas at Fox is not the same thing as a McCarthy witch-hunt - you've definitely seen worse!

With the US now unchallenged as the premier power in the world, those 95% of us outside the US can now either lick your boots (as Australia is doing), or wonder when the legionnaires will arrive at their doorstep.

Hey Pete...

As far as motivations for the invasion, I'm pretty much in the "pre-planned" camp... they just tried too hard in the days after 9/11 to find a way to connect it to Saddam, as illustrated by this little gem.

Wolfowitz and the rest of the neocon funky bunch have been around Washington for decades, but mostly religated to the radical fringes where they belonged... not until GWB have they been able to get a President's ear, and boy do they have it! If you haven't already, you should check out the website for their latest incarnation, the PNAC...

As far as the fascism checklist, I decided to just do a post update to clarify some stuff, so I'll answer that one there...

Yeah, food for thought - loved the line on the "Project for the New American Century" (guess the rest of us don't get a look-in) website "that American leadership is good both for America and for the world" - eat your vegetables, son!! Once you accept that proposition, you have to accept the means that will justify that end... look out!

But I wonder then why they didn't take the hard line earlier, ie at the point when Hussain - well, basically - brought about the removal of Richard Butler as the head of the UN inspection team, seemingly because he was doing his job too well. Anyway - a bit of a side issue.

I think that it's totalitarianism that we're really talking about - fascism is just the flavour, Stalinism being the other side of the same coin. You can have fascism within a democracy (hi, Italy), what you can't have is dissent within an autocracy. I'm sure the administration will be far subtler than the Stalins and Maos of the past, but, if your fears are real, sooner or later they'll manifest themselves, and you need to have the trip-wires in place, ie you need to draw a line of acceptable governmental behavior in the sand. E.g., people don't just disappear in a democracy. People's reputations aren't smeared for speaking out (whoops - there's a red flag!) in a democracy. Etc.

Recent events re North Korea - I know it's serious but I can't help but laugh - there was the US going to Saddam: "You've got WMD's." "No, I haven't." "Yes, you have". And there are the North Koreans going: "Hey! Over here! We've got 'em!!" "No, you haven't." "Yes, we have!" I feel like I'm at a panto shouting: "They're behind you!!" "Where are they?" "THEY'RE BEHIND YOU!!"

Afghanistan, Iraq - don't even get me started on domino theories...

You don't think fascism is alive yet? Wow, do you live in the United States? I bet you are an under 30 something. Not only are we living in Berlin but its 1939 all over again. History will repeat itself but what the hell Americans do everything bigger, better and more efficient. We are going to make the Nazis look like cupie dolls.

Yea, I'm an American, and 33, but what does that have to do with anything? I'm as alarmist as the next guy, but I think by going off the deep end like this you're just making the left look like wack-jobs and making the slide to the big "F" that much smoother.

Seriously, if this were Berlin in 1939 the Hitler Jugend would have already turned us in and this conversation would be fucking over...

This administration's push for global power will need warriors. The best way to get them is not to initiate the draft but limit employment opportunities so that the military becomes an attractive vocation. This way, no one can say they were forced to serve.This is why this so-called conservative administration has taken the seemingly contradictory position of advocating the opening up of the boarder with Mexico. The more people competing for jobs will lower wages and take away the collective bargaining power of Labor. Also these people will tend to vote for the administrtion that let them in thereby incrasing the number of republican voters The administrations New World Order will work best with a dumbed-down populace. Notice the cuts to education in spite of all of the talk of no child left behind. We are in trouble, people.

Taking the conspiracy theorist approach just goes to give these people too much credit for savvy. Why do you need to look under the covers for some complicated conspiracy when they have a website, PNAC as CL identified, outlining their conspiracy in black and white.

Check out the letters to Clinton and Gingrich about invading Iraq due to WMD from 1998.

The administration is not going to intentionally mass lose jobs just to make more military recruits at the expense of maintaining power.

We are not 1939 Berlin, we are simply suffering a power shift to those who preach small government but are intent on massive central control. As with McCarthyism sentiments will eventually shift but its good to encourage that direction.